The strange and peculiar story of Thanet District Council reorganisation

The council leaks information like some sort of giant sponge, both officers and councillors tend to be reluctant to say much about what really goes on in the council but somehow the information slowly leaks out.

One gets a sense of people desperately spinning plates to maintain or enhance their position. Despite all of this I am slowly forming the impression that the council – normally perceived as a bit dysfunctional – is reaching a point where it is unable to function properly at mid and higher management levels.

The main problem appears to emanate from government cuts, this has meant that some officers have been made redundant, some have left voluntarily due to the uncertainty of the stability of their continued employment and there are even some rumours of some being pushed rather than jumping ship in a way that could perhaps be contestable.

This means that some of the council departments are being run and staffed by officers on a temporary basis, with the added cloud hanging over them of uncertainties about the stability of their continued employment.

In many cases we are talking about officers with remuneration in the region of £1,000 per week or more, so what they are doing or not doing is costing us dear.

What appears to be happening is that important decisions, that are normally made at officer level, have often been postponed while departments wait to find out who will be running them and working in them.

There is a very real sense that officers don’t know where they stand and are just biding their time rather than achieving a properly run and efficient council, there is also a sense that some officers are having more in terms of work and responsibilities heaped on them that they could possibly cope with.

I am not sure how the new chief executive stands in all of this, nor do I understand how combining the position of chief executive and head of finance is supposed to work. My understanding is that a council chief executive should be the person with the innovative ideas and that the head of finance should complement this by applying the restraint of what is actually viable and affordable. This begs some questions about one person holding both posts.

I am also uncertain how other councils are coping with this situation and whether the situation is particularly bad here in Thanet, on thing is certain and that is that delays to making beneficial things happen locally and weak slow regulation of major local projects will cost us dear.

I am sending this one to the leader of the council and the chief executive the council in the form of an open letterof for any comments or corrections before I publish it at the end of the working day i.e. 5.30 pm. 

 This is what I said to them as well as sending the above:

“Hi Bob, Sue I am sending you the text of this blog post as a matter of courtesy before publishing it later today, please send me any comments or corrections for incorporation in the post.”

Here is the response to this post:

Dear Mr Child,

In response to your open letter sent to myself and the Leader today.

I am unable to respond to most of your comments as they lack any specific detail. 

The one specific issue you raise is regarding my combined role of Chief Executive and Chief Financial (S151) Officer. Prior to the restructure, an opinion was sought from the Council's External Auditors regarding combining these roles, who raised no objections and indeed there are other authorities where this combined role is currently working successfully.

I can tell you that the majority of the council restructure has been implemented successfully. There remain a couple of teams which have outstanding issues yet to be resolved due to changes in the circumstances in which their services are delivered but we expect these to be fully implemented within this calendar year.

In conclusion, we have not noticed any increase in formal complaints regarding any of the issues you have alluded to but would be pleased to address any specific complaints that you have through our formal complaints process.

Yours sincerely

Dr Sue McGonigal

Chief Executive & Chief Financial Officer

Thanet Conservative candidate resigns

The article is in the Evening Standard see http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23944760-tory-candidate-resigns-over-thanet-girls-are-slags-outburst.do

It’s in the paper, so it must be right, I will try and find out a bit more about this one. 


This really doesn’t look too good, the offending material has been removed from Facebook but is still all in Google’s cache, frankly too offensive to publish on this Blog.

Comment from Jim Nock, the chairman of the association is that: 

Payam Tamiz understands that his Facebook postings were unacceptable and offensive and as a consequence he has, this morning, resigned from the Conservative party and apologises unreservedly for the offense he has caused".  

Thanet Election Special

Sitting on Westbrook beach yesterday I tried to read the Thanet Conservative Manifesto on my rather old mobile internet phone, this thing is known by my children as Dad’s RaspBerry and dates from when mobile internet was expensive and exclusive, all I got was a message saying “file type not supported”

This post is in an experimental stage at the moment, click on the image to enlarge it and you will notice the dog in the sky.

I will add to it once I have made sure I can read all three parties manifestos on my RaspBerry   

Conservative Manifesto 

http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/411/id10.htm

Labour Manifesto

http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/shop411/id3.htm

Liberal Democrat Manifesto

http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/411/id8.htm 

List of candidates

http://thanetpress.blogspot.com/2011/04/election-of-district-and-townparish.html

My postal voting form has now turned up and I am left with the problem that I have only had one flyer, that was from Gerry O’Donnell and spoken to two of the candidates, Gerry O’Donnell and David Green.

I am in the Eastcliff ward, run shop in the middle of it and have been asking everyone I know who lives in this ward if they know anything about any of the other candidates.

As a starting point local politicians who reply to reasonable questions about local issues get my vote.

Funny thing local democracy while all this is going on the real players in the game and the people who cost us the most are being switched around with no public input whatsoever. Richard Samuel replaced by Sue McGonigal, Brian White replaced by Glen Black and so on.

Even more ludicrous is the business of us electing the council leader, you will remember the council held what they called a public consultation about this and all the people who responded said they would rather elect a leader than have one chosen by one of the local political groups. The council decided they didn’t like this idea so didn’t even consider it. Well that’s public consultation for you. So ultimately I suppose the choice now is between Clive Hart and Bob Bayford.

I am usually pretty restrained about using names here but at the moment these names are all published elsewhere on the web.

What I am asking. Who? Myself really I suppose, is what are we engaging in here and why do so few people bother to vote, is it democracy? You can chose between these two leaders.

Obviously the election is going to be a pretty close run thing, suppose the balance of power is held by the independents, frankly with most of my candidates being unknowns and some of the independents being very well known, there is certainly a chance.

On the one day of the year when crucifying our leaders is in some of our minds, perhaps humanity need to do this sort of thing from time to time, I wonder if we should investigate some of our historical methods of leadership.

At some time before the conquest there has been a suggestion that it was the person who could pee furthest up the mast of a longship who was destined to rule.

This seemed to be a bit jumbled up with the best fighters, local lords often went out into the middle east to fight for a bit, it was the crusades then, perhaps now the grail could be substituted for the oil supply.

I think here in Thanet a local Knight, the prior or abbess of the local monastery, slowly moved to the prominent figures in the local trades guilds the burgers ruling, of course the bishop would have been involved too.

Foundations Found at Royal Sands Ramsgate Pleasurama. An Apology and Thanks from Me

It’s all too easy to publish to the internet, unless Conroy Maddox has been using your keyboard as I am sure all of the art lovers who attended the Turner Contemporary will understand.

Many thanks to the contractor Cardy Construction for chipping the chalk off of one of the foundations to a support pillar, that is part of the concrete structure of the arches, part of the Pleasurama cliff façade and sending me a picture.

I genuinely think that it is safe to walk on the cliff top footpath now, something I will be doing again.

Here is the picture and this is what they have to say about it.

“Dear Michael

As recently discussed please find the attached photograph of the exposed column foundation.  The location of concrete highlighted in red extending below the excavation level passed the dotted line would indicate the foundations are built as described within the historic drawings.  It would appear that the concrete was originally cast against chalk and not shuttered therefore causing the surface of the concrete to appear uneven.  We have washed the concrete off as much as possible and driven steel rods into the foundation which appears to be of sound construction.

Regards,
Michael”

This, like so many historical engineering puzzles, has a solution that probably involves practices that wouldn’t occur today.

What happened in this case was that having cut a slot about three feet wide and about three feet deep, going up the seventy foot high bare chalk cliff above, they got some poor chap to get in the bottom of the slot and dig a hole eight and a half feet deep in solid chalk.

I think this picture (I have put coloured lines on the original 1930s plan and sorry about the drawing of the bloke, my children are better at using MS Paint) explains what this is about.

Viewed from the side on.

The red line is the outline of the concrete pillar.

The green line the original line of the ground before the contractor dug out the ground next to the cliff about a fortnight ago.

The brown line about where they have dug the ground down to now.

The blue bit shows where the concrete block walls between the arches are.

Having solved one problem that is a mixture of industrial archaeology and civil engineering, like so many other things in life that leaves us with another problem and more questions.

Can anyone think of a way that they could have got the foundations in for the infill walls between the arches? The most they could be are nine inches thick, I think, not room enough for a man to get inside.

You can see from on the right hand side of Cardy’s photo that the virgin chalk seems to go right up to the bottom of the block wall.

Are there any foundations under the concrete block infills? If there are, do they extend down as far as the contractor has dug down? Are the concrete block infills tied to the pillars either side? In the simplest terms, is there a danger of block infill walls falling on the people working on the building site next to them?

I don’t know how far down you can dig a nine inch wide foundation trench in solid chalk with a shovel, but would doubt it is as far as the chalk has been dug down next to bottom of the block wall.

The pictures should all expand if you click on them.

Royal Sands Development, Pleasurama Site Ramsgate Cliff Safety Response From Thanet District Council.

I have received a response from the council which they have asked me to publish on this blog relating to my concerns about the foundations that support the cliff façade, the base of which has recently been partly exposed by the contractor.

I have also received a response from the contractor via Laura Sandys MP, who is the MP for this constituency.

First an explanation for anyone who either hasn’t been following this issue or hasn’t understood it properly.    

The two pictures above show the bottom of the concrete cliff façade support pillar marked with red dots and what appears to be virgin (undug) chalk below it. 


The picture should get bigger if you click on it and even bigger if you click on it again. 

This picture shows you where this is and I have drawn a red line around the area shown in the two first pictures.  

This is a detail from the original design plans for the pillar supplied to me under foi legislation from the HSE, it is a side on view of the pillar.

I have added coloured lines to it to help explain what is where. The red line shows where the front of the pillar should be. The green line the ground level before the contractor started excavating. The blue line is roughly where I think they have dug down to. The purple line roughly where the virgin chalk has been cut back to.

As I can’t work out how the foundation was put beneath the virgin chalk, without digging it up and the front of the pillar doesn’t follow the line shown in the design drawing I have concerns about the integrity of this structure.

I discovered this situation last Saturday and asked Kent Fire and Rescue if they would examine it and close the footpath above it while more detailed investigations were made.

Kent Fire and Rescue investigated the area, confirmed that they couldn’t find and sign of foundations but told me that as the council had told them that the cliff was safe, they were not able to close the footpath.

Below is the response I have received by email from the council’s engineer Mike Humber signed by the council’s Director of Regeneration services Brian White which they have asked me to publish here.   

"REGENERATION SERVICES

Michael.child@aol.com

15 April 2011

Our ref: BJW/BH

Your ref:

Dear Mr. Child

‘PLEASURAMA’ CLIFFSIDE, RAMSGATE

I am writing in response to your interest regarding the cliff wall to the rear of the Royal Sands

(formerly ‘Pleasurama’ site at Ramsgate. Your concern being that the cliff wall has no proper

foundations, and is therefore at risk. A site visit was made on Monday 11 April by Mr. Mike Humber,

the Council’s Engineer and myself. The ground has been excavated adjacent to the cliff wall in

recent weeks to enable work on the foundations to the Royal Sands development to proceed.

Consequently chalk is visible in places at a level beneath the cliff wall façade, and this has led you to

believe that there may be no foundations supporting the cliff wall itself.

However the point that you have missed on your inspections is that there are substantial concrete

foundations, to a minimum depth of two metres, beneath each of the main supporting columns to the

cliff wall. This was verified during our site inspection.

Records exist of the design of the original cliff wall dating from the early part of the 20th century in the

form of a construction drawing and I believe you already have a copy of this. The observations made

on site this week confirm that the foundation provision appears to be as described on the drawing. It

can be seen that the foundations and columns were both cast insitu with the columns exhibiting a

regular finish from timber formwork whilst the foundations were cast against the hand excavated face

of bare virgin chalk. I suggest that it is this interface between these two very different concrete

finishes that you have misinterpreted as the base of the concrete structure. Although recessed a

little, the foundation does continue well below this elevation as confirmed above.

I do trust that this letter draws your concern to a satisfactory conclusion. Thank you for your interest

in the subject. Perhaps you might post a copy of this letter on your blog.

Whilst writing, because of your interest also in the engineering history of Ramsgate Harbour I thought

I would draw your attention to the pending completion of a new floating concrete breakwater in the

Outer Harbour area. This is the single biggest investment the Council has made in the Harbour for

some 20 or so years. The new floating breakwater will not only protect the Eastern Marina, it will also

provide satisfactory berthing for work boats used in the construction and ongoing operation of the

London Array offshore windfarm. The Council is very pleased with the new structure, a large portion

of the funding was provided through European Union grant.

Yours sincerely

B White

Director of Regeneration Services

Email: brian.white@thanet.gov.uk

Tel: 01843 577007

cc. Cheryl Pendry

Mike Humber"

Below is my response to them 

"Dear Brian and Mike.

I have to admit the saga of this cliff wall is a bit of a difficult one, but as the wretched thing doesn’t conform to the design drawings I feel it best to err on the safe side. Most particularly as the previous two problems I reported to the council, the bulging panel and the 1860s balustrade both resulted in council action to repair the problem.

God alone knows how that 1860s balustrade is supposed to work, if it has foundations and how much water is getting in from behind. Did you know that when the railway extension from Herne Bay to Ramsgate was put in, in the 1860s the government inspector, Captain Rich condemned much of the civil engineering work including several of the bridges, which had to be rebuilt?

I am still concerned that I haven’t got any evidence that there is sound concrete all the way between the bottom of the visible concrete pier and the rough cast concrete that you have discovered at the at the bottom of the recent excavation.

Have you either exposed continuous concrete between the bottom of the pier and the bottom of the excavation, carried out a driven rod or bore test this in this area?

The reason I ask this is that the chalk at the bottom of the pillar doesn’t have the appearance of made ground and I can’t see how the back of a load spreading foundation or the bottom of the pillar could have been constructed without disturbing the chalk.

As we have discussed before the façade isn’t a load bearing structure and I am particularly concerned that heavy vehicles are accessing the cliff edge while below excavations are being made of foundations that don’t conform to exactly the design drawings i.e a uniformly cast liner pillar extending down to the foundations.

After the arched part of the façade (visibly the most sound and professionally constructed part) the contractor will presumably excavate in front the less linier portal part of the façade where both the pinning took place and the contractor has already discovered and documented one pillar with inadequate foundations sitting on made ground.

In short the risks of a normal building site appear to have been adequately addressed apart from the added problem of the proximity of the public footpath to the edge of the cliff.

I am not asking that this be permanently closed while the building work is in progress, something would I think be unnecessary and damaging to the town’s economy.

Just that the parts above excavation of any part of the base of the façade that doesn’t conform precisely to the design drawings is closed while investigations are made and of course some emergency signage warning people not to drive anywhere near the cliff edge.

Best regards Michael"

I have also had a response from Laura Sandys informing me that the contractor, Cardy Construction will “further expose a section of the foundation and provide Michael with photographic evidence of the existing foundation,”


I have added a link to a series of linked webpages showing some of the various technical reports on the cliff façade structure http://www.thanetonline.com/cliff 

Pleasurama, Royal Sands Development Ramsgate Cliff Safety, Duty and Civil Disobedience

After my communications with the contractor earlier this week there has been some investigation of the cliff façade foundations.

The pictures should all expand if you click on them, looking at this first one taken through the site gate it appeared that not only have they cut back the chalk as far as where the pillar should continue down but have actually undermined the chalk under the pillar.

This was all too much for me, so I went on to the site, you have to appreciate that there were people walking along the cliff top path at the time. I had had assurances that the foundations were there and it certainly looked as though they were not.

 The following pictures were taken close to the pillar that has been undermined.

Here are the rest of today’s pictures from the camera card http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/netbok411/id4.htm I am a bit lost for words at the moment, obviously I have alerted Kent Fire and Rescue’s USAR team.   

Thanet Election Special

The council have published the lists of persons nominated to stand in the forthcoming local elections, these are the elections where you vote for the Thanet District Council councillors and the town or parish council councillors.

I have published them on the Thanet Press release blog, here http://thanetpress.blogspot.com/2011/04/election-of-district-and-townparish.html I hope I didn’t miss anyone out, please let me know if I did.

Thanet District Council have also published this list on their website, although you may have a bit of a job finding it and when you do they have published it in the most peculiar way imaginable. 

Most people when putting a document on to the internet use html which is a computer code that you internet browser turns into what you see, what the council have done is to publish each wards list of candidates as a separate text file and put up a page of links to these files, see http://www.thanet.gov.uk/council__democracy/cllrs_democracy__elections/elections_and_voting/candidates_at_lg_election.aspx

What happens when you click on the link will depend on what programs you have installed on your computer and how they are configured. I would say that on most computers clicking on the link would cause the document to open in Microsoft Word.

Having just tried to look as who is standing where, I gave up opening documents lifted the whole lot and published them on the press release blog.

Margate Football Club V Hartsdown Park

Another document in the saga of football v Margate has appeared on the council’s website today, the planning part of Thanet District Council’s website is a very bizarre site, something that makes it impossible to link to things on it.

To view the document, go to http://www.ukplanning.com/thanet in the street name box click on the letter H, then click on Hartsdown Road and you will have all of the various planning documents that relate to this issue.

The batch of documents you want is 30 Mar 2011 F/TH/11/0224 and if you click on that link you will find one document called Other, this is a deed of variation changing the terms of an agreement between Thanet District Council and Hartsdown Development Company.

I should point out here that according Simon Mores in a rather bizarre thread on his blog, this document is to be deleted when their IT wizards work out how to do so, see http://birchington.blogspot.com/2011/03/wedding-bells.html

If you click on the plan above and then click on it again it should be big enough to follow, note the red bit in the middle of the park, my understanding is that the football club want to put an artificial pitch there and fence it off so that it cuts the park in half.

 They have already done this to the green bit.

Some people in Margate don’t like this idea and think that a public park is somewhere they should be able to walk across, others think that this will help the football club to survive.

And this map, the council’s planning site is like that, fuzzy images that you can’t decipher are quite common.

What the different looking plans and the deed of variation actually mean, in terms of the cutting the park up is a bit hard to tell, perhaps that they intend to cut it up in a different way.  

Ramsgate, Rank the council and how the Royal Victoria Pavillion got trashed

Assuming that you are a normal law abiding citizen then you know that if you fall fowl – sorry must have been thinking of chickens – foul of the council, don’t pay your council tax, abide by the conditions of your lease (if you rent a council owned property – even a beach hut) then the council will take you to court and you will have to pay up.

When it comes to large companies that fall foul of the council then things are a bit different – I am not saying that this always the council’s fault, just what happens – the trouble is that as time goes on a council can get a bit of a name as a soft touch.

Sometime back in 1969 the council leased the Pav to Fortes, at this time the Pav was the main music venue in the town, from memory the Golden Goose Showbar – correct me if I’m wrong I was 16 at the time and had other things on my mind – live music most evenings.

Over time with company takeovers, mergers and so on this lease became the responsibility of the Rank Organisation and Rank and the companies they took over, trashed the Pav.

If they obtained planning permission for the things they did to the building then I can’t find any record of it, if they took any notice of the listed building consent then I can’t find any record of that either.

I suppose much of the fault here lies with the council who just didn’t keep an eye on this important building that had been entrusted to them. As you know eventually the Rank Organisation decided that they didn’t need the building anymore and walked away from it leaving it derelict.

Eventually in April 2008 the council wrote them a letter with a list of things that Rank needed to do to be compliant with the lease, here it is http://thanetonline.com/rvpds other letters followed, much the same and the Rank Organisation painted the outside of the building.

I think that the council saw this as some sort of victory (perhaps it was) and issued a press release, here it is http://www.thanet.gov.uk/news/latest_press_releases/pavilion_work_finishes.aspx saying that work had been completed down the Pav.

I didn’t like the look of the work on the outside, in many places they have just painted over where the building has been boarded up and frankly didn’t believe the press release.

Fortunately there was still some work going on down there so I thought I had better go and have a look, at what the building was really like inside, this I did, see http://thanetonline.blogspot.com/2010/11/pictures-of-inside-of-royal-victoria.html

The dreadful condition of the inside of the pavillion or pavilion – don’t know which is right – The Pav, was beyond anything I could describe so I took some pictures, see
http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/pav2010/index.htm

http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/pav2010/id3.htm

http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/pav2010/id4.htm

after this nothing seemed to be happening with the building at all, so yesterday I asked the council what is going on with it .

This is what I asked:

“Do the council have any intention of getting Rank repair the inside of the building that is now derelict?

Is there anything on the cards apart from it standing for many more years as an empty and derelict white elephant?

Of course if you have anything else to say that I may not have thought about, say it and I will change the post accordingly.”

And this is their reply:

"The council is legally limited by what it can do in statute and in case law.

"As this was an interim schedule of dilapidations, the internal works that can be required by the landlord are very limited. Works within those parameters have now been concluded.


"Rank has a lease and they have now fulfilled their obligations within that lease."

The problem for us here in Ramsgate, is one of where do we go from here? a wealthy and major company has trashed one of main heritage and tourist assets.

The council while happy to engage in expensive legal wrangles with residents, won’t take on the Rank Organisation, probably wisely I should add.

Thanet District Council Fire

Just a short note to say that the council’s computer server room has caught fire so they will probably have a reduced online service.

The picture is of Margate Firestation

Update after about 6 hours the conventional media have caught up with this story.

The BBC say:

A small fire caused by an electrical fault at council offices in Kent has led to a reduction in services.

see

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-12228336

Thanet Extra say:

A fire has ripped through part of Thanet council's offices in Margate, causing disruption to local services.

see

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet_extra/news/2011/january/19/staff_evacuated_during_blaze_a.aspx

Last Thursday’s Council Meeting Webcast

Click on the ink to view, http://www.thanet.gov.uk/council_meeting_webcast.aspx

Thanet District Council Leadership Chosen

Last night the council held an extraordinary meeting to decide what sort of leadership the council will have for the next four years.

Either a leader elected by the local voters or a leader chosen by the councillors, this decision was based on a consultation aimed at determining the views of the voters.

The result of the consultation was unanimous, all of the local voters who responded said the wanted a democratically elected leader chosen by the local voters.

The council then decided not to adopt the wishes of the voters but to have a leader selected by them the councillors.

The main question here is why ask the voters if you aren’t going to take any notice of what they say?

A day left to say if you want to vote for the leader of Thanet District Council.

You have until 5pm tomorrow 15th December to take part in the council’s leadership consultation, what the council are asking you is do you want to vote for who will be the council’s leader for the next four years at the May election? Or do you want the councillors to do it for you?

You only have to email one of the following two answers to Glenn.Back@thanet.gov.uk with your name and address so he can check that you are on the electoral roll and are eligible to take part.

1 I want a leader of the council elected by the people of Thanet.

2 I want a leader of the council chosen by the councillors.

This link takes you to the councils web page about this http://www.thanet.gov.uk/council__democracy/cllrs_democracy__elections/governance_models_consultation.aspx

The results of this consultation will be the basis on which the council decide what sort of leadership we will have, this link takes you to the officers advice to the councillors about how to make this decision http://tdc-mg-dmz.thanet.gov.uk/Published/C00000141/M00002146/AI00007769/$RevisedPoliticalManagementArrangements.doc.htm

Please pass this information on to anyone who you think may be interested.

Is Thanet District Council Rigging The May Elections

In May the council will either have a new style strong leader, elected by the voters in Thanet at the May election when we vote for the councillors, or it will have a new style strong leader chosen by the councillors.

One or the other has to happen because of an act of parliament passed by the government in 2007.

To decide which of these types of leadership the council will have, the council has to consult the voters to find out which type of council leadership they want, the council has two options for doing this set out in the act, one is to hold a referendum so that the voters can vote for which type of leadership they want, the other is for the council to hold a public consultation to determine what the voters want.

The council has decided, to decide what the voters want, by holding a public consultation, this consultation has been in progress now for eleven weeks and has determined the views of six voters.

To answer the question in the title of this post I don’t intend to present an argument, but instead to ask another question.

Do you think that the leader of the council, that we get after the May elections, will be the same person as the leader we would have got, had the council chosen to decide what the voters want by holding a referendum?

One of the problems with the council’s leadership is accountability, it is very difficult to elicit a response from the current leader and I believe this may be to do with the way he was selected. The following is a quote from the council’s website.

“A strong and stable democracy relies on people using their votes. By voting, you can hold your elected representatives accountable.

Make sure you have your say. Votes are power.”

Click on the link for the page if you want to read the rest of this http://www.thanet.gov.uk/council__democracy/cllrs_democracy__elections/elections_and_voting.aspx

The council officers have published their advice about how the councillors should decide this issue at next weeks council meeting, it is a very odd document, bits of it just don’t make sense, for example:

“8.1 As mentioned earlier in the report the Council must selected its preferred political governance arrangements have regard to the public consultation responses as well as the extent to which the proposals, when implemented, would be likely to assist in securing continuous improvement in the way in which the Councils functions are exercised, having regard to a combination of economy, efficiency and effectiveness.”

Does it mean, select or have selected. I think the difference is make their mind up at the meeting, or come to the meeting with their minds already made up?

4.1 Para 2 “In considering how to approach these requirements you will wish to have regard to the circumstances of today, including both the priority of cutting out all wasteful spending and the Government’s commitments to allow councils to return to the committee system, should they wish to, and on elected mayors.”

Does it mean the governments commitments, the committee system and or elected mayors are wasteful spending?

Here the rest of it read it for your self if you want.

http://tdc-mg-dmz.thanet.gov.uk/Published/C00000141/M00002146/AI00007769/$RevisedPoliticalManagementArrangements.doc.htm

Thanet District Council Leadership Consultation Only Six People Respond

It’s a funny old world, reading the blogs and talking to local people over the years I formed the impression that quite a few people were interested in the way the council is run.

I think the population of Thanet is about 150,000 from memory and I believe the number of those eligible to vote is just under 100,000, so when the council are obliged by the local government act to hold a twelve week consultation about the way the council will be run over the next four years, you would expect quite a few replies.

Well there is only a week of the consultation to go and according to the council only about six people have responded, it isn’t as though it is a complicated consultation, the council are only asking two questions and you only have to make one answer.

1 Do you want to vote for the leader of the council?

2 Do you want the councillors to chose the leader of the council?

You only have to email one of the following two answers to Glenn.Back@thanet.gov.uk with your name and address so he can check that you are on the electoral roll and are eligible to take part.

1 I want a leader of the council elected by the people of Thanet.

2 I want a leader of the council chosen by the councilors.

I asked the council about this consultation ten days ago and have been promised a response, but haven’t received it yet.

I asked my MP to ask the council about this consultation, because time is running out and she got a response from the council, as obviously not many people are interested in this subject, I will put some of the relevant bits below, here is the link to the whole response http://www.thanetonline.com/1110/id8.htm

This all relates to an act of parliament, here is the link to the relevant bit http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/28/section/64

Next some parts of the councils response in red.

We have not received many responses to the consultation so far. Of the half-dozen or so we have received, all of those expressing an opinion have stated a preference for the Mayoral model, and that will be reported to the extraordinary meeting of Council on 16 December. It is worth noting, however, that the current statutory threshold for triggering a Mayoral referendum is very nearly 5,000 people on the electoral register. It will be for Council to decide how much weight to give to the relatively small number of responses we have received.

Before I go on I will endeavour to explain this bit.

The Mayoral model, is not as some of you could expect a charming young lady accompanying the mayor but means an elected leader, it has nothing to do with dressing up of either models or ceremonial mayors, think of it as a Boris Johnson type of mayor if you like.

The “statutory threshold for triggering a Mayoral referendum,” is a bit misleading in this context as this is the figure for a mayoral petition organised and presented to the council by a member of the public. It has nothing to do with the figure required for a consultation organised by the council, which is what he is talking about.

I will add to this post if I get time this evening.

Next the really bizarre correspondence between the council and one of the readers of this blog.

Here is the pertinent bit of what he asked the council:

The Act requires that the local authority must publish in one or more newspapers circulating in its area a notice which—(i) states that the authority has drawn up the proposals,(ii) describes the main features of the proposals,(iii) states that copies of a document setting out the proposals are available at their principal office for inspection by members of the public at such times as may be specified in the notice, and(iv) specifies the address of their principal office.I read the local papers fairly closely and I don't remember seeing such a notice published. Please advise in which paper and on what date such a notice was posted.

And this the council’s reply:

Section 64 of the Local Government & Public Involvement in Health Act 2007 requires Councils to consult the public before drawing up their proposals (i.e. before they are put to Council). It goes on to say that after drawing up their proposals (i.e. after Council has taken the decision) those proposals must be published in a local newspaper. So there is no legal requirement for a notice to have been placed in a newspaper at this stage.

In other words the council are interpreting the act as meaning the consultation should be publicised after it has happened.

The King of the council?

This civic throne of leaders, this septic isle,
This dearth of majesty, this seat of Bob,
This other chamber, semi-paradise,
This fortress built by a Leader for himself
Against defection and the hand of law,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious chair set by the silver sea,
Which serves us in the office for us all?
Or as a moat defensive to the group,
Against, less envy of the happier lands,--
This blessed blot, this dirt, this realm, this Thanet.

Robert The Unborn of Thanet Act 2 scene 1

Sorry about that I am loosing patience waiting for council to respond to my questions about the local leadership consultation.

Pleasurama site cliff façade another loose bit

Below today's email to the council and the HSE, slightly modified to remove names.

“Unfortunately despite the work carried out on the cliff façade by TDC on 8th October (removing vegetation lose masonry from the portal blockwork on site and from the area either side of the site boundary at the eastern end of the site, see http://thanetonline.blogspot.com/2010/10/council-weed-pleasurama-cliff-facade.html ) more of the render has come away from the façade, I think over the last couple of days.

One again this is over the site boundary, so any of it that falls to the ground will do so from about 50 feet and probably land partly on the site and partly on the public highway.

There is a ledge immediately below the part I can see that has come away which may prevent part or all of it from falling to the ground, I would think this would depend on how far up the delamination extends.

As you know my concern is that the rapid deterioration of this part of the façade is due to the blocked drainage and damaged surface above it and my main concern is that water has entered this part of the cliff making its stability uncertain.

I am also concerned that both the council and the council’s advising engineers have a considerable vested interest in the cliff façade within the site boundary being shown to be in good condition. I am further concerned that any survey of the cliff by the councils advising engineers or the councils engineers after the main contract to repair and coat the façade would be influenced by the liability were the cliff to found defective.

I am also uncertain as to the situation relating to work on the site, by this I mean that all work on the site seems to have stopped since the weekend 2nd 3rd October when the piece of render fell off.

Is it your contention that it is safe to work on the site at the moment?

Picture above with the loose part outlined in red, clcik on it to enlarge, the render seems to be about 50 mm away from the brickwork behind, because the surface of the render hasn’t cracked this suggests that the delamination extends some considerable way up.

I am asking that you take the following action.

1 Cordon off and sign the effected area until the problem is investigated.

2 Institute a weight limit topside.

3 Investigate the localised area and remove the lose render.

4 Arrange for a full and independent survey of the cliff behind the site extending beyond the site to Augusta Stairs.

5 Please register this as official customer feedback.”

Is Thanet District Council prepared to put out lives at risk?

Of all of the strange situations that I have found myself in dealing with the council, this one I think takes the biscuit, and I have now made an official complaint about it.

On Monday I pointed out to them that there was a bit of lose masonry hanging about forty feet over people’s heads, well it’s Thursday and when I looked earlier today it was still there.

No warning sign no barriers, just hanging over a place where anyone can walk, anyone’s children play, it is just plain potty.

Hi this is a complaint relating to public safety and as such could you please deal with it expediently, please quote this reference in any reply Pleasurama complaint 71010.

The following is background to impress on you the urgency of this situation.

On 27th September 2010 I emailed the council’s engineer, chief of development services, chief executive, the officer dealing with the development and the leader of the council expressing concerns about the safety of the Pleasurama cliff.

On the same day I telephoned the HSE about the same issue, particularly with reference to the construction workers now working beneath the cliff.

On the 29th September 2010 the HSE telephoned me and told me, that they had contacted the council and that the chief of development services had assured them that there were no safety issues relating to the cliff.

During last weekend part of the cliff large enough to kill or seriously injure someone below, I would estimate that this cliff wall masonry weighed about 50 kilos fell from a height of about 15 metres, partly into the construction site and partly onto the public highway.

This has left further loose masonry hanging above where the building site joins the public highway.

On the following Monday 4th October 2010 I discussed this with the council’s engineer and was assured that some sort of action would be taken to make the site and public highway safe.

Not the proper and thorough examination of the cliff that I requested, but measures to remove the lose bits and or cordon off the area below them.

I have just visited the site and while the loose masonry is still hanging there no measures have been taken to protect the public.

I wish to complain that the council has taken no action in this instance to protect public safety and has failed in its duty of care.

Royals Sands Development, Pleasurama Cliff, a lump falls off

Over the weekend a lump of the cliff façade fell off. What is important to stress here is that last week the council assured the HSE that this façade was safe enough for people to work underneath and safe enough to build a residential development next to it.

During the weekend the part of the façade that will be above the main entrance to the new development shed enough masonry to kill a person standing below.
The missing bit that that it where it fell from is in the picture above, you can also see the bit next to it is lose.


You can see from the picture above (a detail from one of the pictures in Saturdays post) that it was there last week.



First I phoned the Health and Safety Executive and spoke to the chap I spoke to last week, I wasn’t really sure what action they intend to take, he said he would talk to his supervisor.

He suggested that I phoned the council’s building control department, unfortunately the building control officers were either in meetings or out on site.

Here is the bigger picture of now

and here the bigger picture of last week.

It was becoming obvious that I wasn’t getting very far and that my next port of call would have to be the fire brigade.

The problem here though is the blocked drain, featured in the previous post, the question being is the whole structure full of water and likely to collapse

as I said before part of this structure collapsed in the 60s and so the potential hazard may be much more than it first seems.

See http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/blogpicts11/id14.htm


If it isn’t dangerous then it will be a bit embarrassing for me but if it is it could be fatal to the firemen or anyone else who messes about with it.

Anyway I stressed the importance of the drain to the fire officers and they went off to look at it.

Finally the council’s building control engineer phoned up, we then had a fairly heated discussion about the whole structure.

I pointed out that I had asked him a year ago to put up signs preventing heavy vehicles from driving on the footpath at the top of the cliff.

That the cliff needs a proper survey.

That a bit of cliff that bits periodically drop of isn’t suitable to have a building with over 1,000 people in it 4 metres away from it.

At least he has agreed to put some fencing at the bottom to stop people going where the bits are falling and to get a cherry picker and have a look at the cliff.